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Tim Bruening
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 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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Whata Fool wrote:
| Quote: |
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
A group of activists called "Green For All" (greenforall.org) has
started a campaign to get Congress to allocate $125 million to train
30,000 young people a year in green trades such as weatherizing homes
and installing solar panels (both jobs that can't be outsourced
overseas, since you can't ship a house to China to be outfitted with
insulation and solar panels!), thus boosting both the environment and
the economy simultaneously!
It started with one Van Jones, an Afro-American social and environmental
activist who leads the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in Oakland.
He was tired of oil companies stampeding poor people into opposing
environmental initiatives, so he started a crusade to help
underprivileged blacks and other disadvantaged communities understand
that efforts to green America could create jobs for them. To that end,
Jones' group teamed up with an electrical union to create the Oakland
Apollo Alliance, which helped raised $250,000 from the city government
to create a training program that will teach young Oaklanders how to
weatherize homes and install solar panels. Van Jones believes that "The
green economy has the power to deliver new sources of work, wealth and
health to low income people-while honoring the Earth. If you can do
that, you just wiped out a whole bunch of problems. We can make what is
good for poor black kids good for the polar bears and good for the
country".
Do you mean there is anybody 16 or over that can't read
and follow the instructions on the package the weather stripping
comes in?
|
What if the entire house is being done, or you are old or sick?
| Quote: |
Who is going to pay for the solar panels and the materials
to weatherize?
|
Some utility companies have financial assistance programs for solar power and
energy efficiency, and the California and U.S. governments provide tax breaks
for solar power.
| Quote: |
I hope it works, but if McDonald's has trouble getting help
to even show up for work, and the restaurant is across from a
big high school, there must not be many young people wanting
a job.
The hope is that the solar cell paint will improve enough
that it becomes cost effective in places other than the sun belt.
And it would be great if the technology lightweight materials
begin to be mass produced and affordable.
But solar thermal is the thing that is affordable and effective
while the sun shines, just using air collectors, either just windowed
boxes with the inside back painted black or covered with black
chrome can be built by any carpenter, but I don't think industry
has made any of the air doors and automatic controls to make
even the air collectors easy to use and effective.
One guidance device is available for movable collectors,
which can double the amount of energy collected, the problem
still seems to be the mount, neighbors who complain if the
collectors are not hidden from view, and the impossibility of
installing solar collectors on some homes because of trees
or other sun shielding structures.
Anything that is done should be for the right reason,
reducing dependence on oil, reducing energy costs,
and providing the means to use alternate energy. |
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Whata Fool
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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|
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
Whata Fool wrote:
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
A group of activists called "Green For All" (greenforall.org) has
started a campaign to get Congress to allocate $125 million to train
30,000 young people a year in green trades such as weatherizing homes
and installing solar panels (both jobs that can't be outsourced
overseas, since you can't ship a house to China to be outfitted with
insulation and solar panels!), thus boosting both the environment and
the economy simultaneously!
It started with one Van Jones, an Afro-American social and environmental
activist who leads the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in Oakland.
He was tired of oil companies stampeding poor people into opposing
environmental initiatives, so he started a crusade to help
underprivileged blacks and other disadvantaged communities understand
that efforts to green America could create jobs for them. To that end,
Jones' group teamed up with an electrical union to create the Oakland
Apollo Alliance, which helped raised $250,000 from the city government
to create a training program that will teach young Oaklanders how to
weatherize homes and install solar panels. Van Jones believes that "The
green economy has the power to deliver new sources of work, wealth and
health to low income people-while honoring the Earth. If you can do
that, you just wiped out a whole bunch of problems. We can make what is
good for poor black kids good for the polar bears and good for the
country".
Do you mean there is anybody 16 or over that can't read
and follow the instructions on the package the weather stripping
comes in?
What if the entire house is being done, or you are old or sick?
|
There are small scale programs now to do a few houses
for the really old or disabled, the question is how many people
would want to turn loose a bunch of workers to make any major
changes to a home without a contractor being legally responsible.
Who will plan and supervise the projects on the actual
work on a home, is there certain individuals who are already
trained to do the design work, and assure that it will be safe
and effective.
| Quote: |
Who is going to pay for the solar panels and the materials
to weatherize?
Some utility companies have financial assistance programs for solar power and
energy efficiency, and the California and U.S. governments provide tax breaks
for solar power.
|
Most residents in California don't need any energy conservation
if the house was built with any common sense, but many things work
in California that won't work in the northeast and midwest US.
Solar energy and insulation are not new ideas, in 1973 there
was a huge involvement by the states and the federal government
in supporting research and installation of alternate energy projects,
but it fizzled and many of the solar equipment companies went
broke or were divisions of large corporations that were shut down
with a big writeoff.
Please keep us informed about how it goes and how many
complete houses have been done, hopefully it will work.
What we really need is Electric Vehicles with generators
on the back, and off peak metering for charging the batteries,
it is autos that use the most oil, anybody heating a house with
oil is way behind the times, and needs to switch to something
else or add a primary heating system and just use the oil
for emergency backup.
All of the big projects ever saw resulted in individuals
or companies getting big handouts, with less than expected
results.
But don't let me rain on your parade, I am just feeling
a little disappointed because I was promised warming, and
all I get is heavy frost this week, and below freezing most
of the time for the next 5 months. |
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
| Quote: |
Do you mean there is anybody 16 or over that can't read
and follow the instructions on the package the weather stripping
comes in?
|
There are still AmeriKKKans who don't know who their own president is.
Reading the instructions on weather stripping is well beyond the
understanding of the Average AmeriKKKan I'm afraid.
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
| Quote: |
Who is going to pay for the solar panels and the materials
to weatherize?
|
You are.
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
| Quote: |
I hope it works, but if McDonald's has trouble getting help
to even show up for work, and the restaurant is across from a
big high school, there must not be many young people wanting
a job.
|
Too busy trying to get their guns through the school metal detectors I
guess.
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
| Quote: |
The hope is that the solar cell paint will improve enough
that it becomes cost effective in places other than the sun belt.
And it would be great if the technology lightweight materials
begin to be mass produced and affordable.
|
Solar cells are already more efficient than plants at converting sunlight
to energy. Average cells about twice as efficient, and the best cells 7
times more efficient. |
|
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote.
| Quote: |
There will always be 3 percent, that results from those
changing jobs and take 4 or 5 weeks to find another job.
|
That would mean that 33% of AmeriKKKan workers change their jobs each
year. |
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Tim Bruening
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
Whata Fool wrote:
| Quote: |
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
Whata Fool wrote:
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
A group of activists called "Green For All" (greenforall.org) has
started a campaign to get Congress to allocate $125 million to train
30,000 young people a year in green trades such as weatherizing homes
and installing solar panels (both jobs that can't be outsourced
overseas, since you can't ship a house to China to be outfitted with
insulation and solar panels!), thus boosting both the environment and
the economy simultaneously!
It started with one Van Jones, an Afro-American social and environmental
activist who leads the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in Oakland.
He was tired of oil companies stampeding poor people into opposing
environmental initiatives, so he started a crusade to help
underprivileged blacks and other disadvantaged communities understand
that efforts to green America could create jobs for them. To that end,
Jones' group teamed up with an electrical union to create the Oakland
Apollo Alliance, which helped raised $250,000 from the city government
to create a training program that will teach young Oaklanders how to
weatherize homes and install solar panels. Van Jones believes that "The
green economy has the power to deliver new sources of work, wealth and
health to low income people-while honoring the Earth. If you can do
that, you just wiped out a whole bunch of problems. We can make what is
good for poor black kids good for the polar bears and good for the
country".
Do you mean there is anybody 16 or over that can't read
and follow the instructions on the package the weather stripping
comes in?
What if the entire house is being done, or you are old or sick?
There are small scale programs now to do a few houses
for the really old or disabled, the question is how many people
would want to turn loose a bunch of workers to make any major
changes to a home without a contractor being legally responsible.
Who will plan and supervise the projects on the actual
work on a home, is there certain individuals who are already
trained to do the design work, and assure that it will be safe
and effective.
Who is going to pay for the solar panels and the materials
to weatherize?
Some utility companies have financial assistance programs for solar power and
energy efficiency, and the California and U.S. governments provide tax breaks
for solar power.
Most residents in California don't need any energy conservation
if the house was built with any common sense, but many things work
in California that won't work in the northeast and midwest US.
Solar energy and insulation are not new ideas, in 1973 there
was a huge involvement by the states and the federal government
in supporting research and installation of alternate energy projects,
but it fizzled and many of the solar equipment companies went
broke or were divisions of large corporations that were shut down
with a big writeoff.
Please keep us informed about how it goes and how many
complete houses have been done, hopefully it will work.
What we really need is Electric Vehicles with generators
on the back, and off peak metering for charging the batteries,
it is autos that use the most oil, anybody heating a house with
oil is way behind the times, and needs to switch to something
else or add a primary heating system and just use the oil
for emergency backup.
All of the big projects ever saw resulted in individuals
or companies getting big handouts, with less than expected
results.
But don't let me rain on your parade, I am just feeling
a little disappointed because I was promised warming, and
all I get is heavy frost this week, and below freezing most
of the time for the next 5 months.
|
Where do you live? |
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Tim Bruening
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
HangEveryRepubliKKKan wrote:
| Quote: |
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
Do you mean there is anybody 16 or over that can't read
and follow the instructions on the package the weather stripping
comes in?
There are still AmeriKKKans who don't know who their own president is.
Reading the instructions on weather stripping is well beyond the
understanding of the Average AmeriKKKan I'm afraid.
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
Who is going to pay for the solar panels and the materials
to weatherize?
You are.
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
I hope it works, but if McDonald's has trouble getting help
to even show up for work, and the restaurant is across from a
big high school, there must not be many young people wanting
a job.
Too busy trying to get their guns through the school metal detectors I
guess.
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote
The hope is that the solar cell paint will improve enough
that it becomes cost effective in places other than the sun belt.
And it would be great if the technology lightweight materials
begin to be mass produced and affordable.
Solar cells are already more efficient than plants at converting sunlight
to energy. Average cells about twice as efficient, and the best cells 7
times more efficient.
|
What happens if you splash sea water into them? |
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Tim Bruening
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote.
| Quote: |
There will always be 3 percent, that results from those
changing jobs and take 4 or 5 weeks to find another job.
|
As long as they are changing jobs, why not train them in jobs that help
the environment? |
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Whata Fool
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
Where do you live?
|
Fort Knox. |
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Whata Fool
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
What happens if you splash sea water into them?
|
Pure distilled water has a very high resistance, meaning
low conductance.
But conductance goes up with the amount of salt added,
I have to add salt to my steam humidifier to get enough conductance
through the water to produce steam.
Why do you ask, do you live by the seashore? |
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Whata Fool
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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|
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Whata Fool" <whata@fool.ami> wrote.
There will always be 3 percent, that results from those
changing jobs and take 4 or 5 weeks to find another job.
As long as they are changing jobs, why not train them in jobs that help
the environment?
|
Is there some reason you think individuals are monkeys
that can be trained, even monkeys want pay for training (in the
form of food).
And what is the big problem with the environment, every
place I see here is trees, grass, swamp, underbrush, streams
and rivers.
This summer was a little drier than usual, this drought
has been boring, with 8 inches of rain in October, twice as
much as normal.
What people need to be trained to do is be self
sufficient, how to manage their money, and how to be
independent, and prepared in ways they can survive
when the liberals screw everything up.
With all the "experts" in alternate energy, I still
can't find anything that is really useful in using solar
energy here.
But I am pretty sure I have an idea that will
work, only I have to build everything from scratch.
Solar cells on the roof in California make sense
(southern part at least), but above the 35th parallel,
putting them on the roof is dumb, they should be
inside south facing vertical thermal air collectors,
using the warm air to warm the house and cool the
solar cells at the same time.
I will have to build some valves to switch from
house warming to solar cell cooling only, and I will
have to build the collectors from scratch and glaze
them myself, there isn't any sense in paying somebody
to do the work and them have to show them what I
want done and then move their hands for them.
People are strongly determined to do things
the way they do them, and training may not help
all of them.
But good luck "training" them, the grant money
should be great, hopefully the grant auditors won't
be too strict. |
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Tim Bruening
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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|
Whata Fool wrote:
| Quote: |
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
What happens if you splash sea water into them?
Pure distilled water has a very high resistance, meaning
low conductance.
But conductance goes up with the amount of salt added,
I have to add salt to my steam humidifier to get enough conductance
through the water to produce steam.
Why do you ask, do you live by the seashore?
|
In "Ecotopia Emerging" by Ernest Callenbach, one of the characters
discovers that dousing her solar power cells in sea water increases
their efficiency dramatically. She eventually traces the cause to
selenium. I was wondering if that might happen in real life. |
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Tim Bruening
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan wrote:
| Quote: |
"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote
As long as they are changing jobs, why not train them in jobs that help
the environment?
Is there a demand for such expertise?
|
There certainly will be as all the nations of the world scramble to reduce
their CO2 emissions before the rising sea water drowns them? |
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Tim Bruening
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
HangEveryRepubliKKKan wrote:
| Quote: |
HangEveryRepubliKKKan wrote:
Solar cells are already more efficient than plants at converting
sunlight
to energy. Average cells about twice as efficient, and the best cells 7
times more efficient.
"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote
What happens if you splash sea water into them?
They get wet.
|
Is their performance affected? |
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote
| Quote: |
As long as they are changing jobs, why not train them in jobs that help
the environment?
|
Is there a demand for such expertise? |
|
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HangEveryRepubliKKKan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Green For All |
|
|
| Quote: |
HangEveryRepubliKKKan wrote:
Solar cells are already more efficient than plants at converting
sunlight
to energy. Average cells about twice as efficient, and the best cells 7
times more efficient.
|
"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote
| Quote: |
What happens if you splash sea water into them?
|
They get wet.
The first solar-powered boat to cross the Atlantic, a 45-foot catamaran
named "Sun21" pulled into Miami Thursday, March 29, 2007 after a 29-day
crossing. The Swiss boat uses solar cells to drive two motors and cruises at
an average of five knots.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/photoblog/2007/03/sun21_solar_pow.html |
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