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Robert Henderson
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 Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try to |
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"daily telegraph
Neil Entwistle jailed for life without parole for murder of wife and
daughter
By Tom Leonard in New York
Last Updated: 9:39PM BST 26/06/2008
Neil Entwistle was jailed for life today without the possibility of
parole after he was convicted of murdering his wife and baby daughter."
Note: As far as one can judge from the media reports, Entwistle's lawyer
presented a cursory defence with some glaring omissions, for example,
he failed to present any witnesses to support the claim that the wife
was depressed - you either don't use such a defence if there is no
supporting evidence or you put a few psychologists on the stand to
testify on the general question of how often such killings are the
result of depression.
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the
claim that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of
entry of the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
There is once circumstantial fact which is in Entwistle's favour: in
cases where a father kills his children and their mother the killer
almost always attempts to commit suicide - where a gun is used normally
with success. Entwistle did not try to do this. If I had been his
defence counsel I would have had experts in the witness box giving the
statistics to show just how unusual Entwistle's behaviour was. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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tim.....
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0Fi6UVNC8zZIFwld@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"daily telegraph
Neil Entwistle jailed for life without parole for murder of wife and
daughter
By Tom Leonard in New York
Last Updated: 9:39PM BST 26/06/2008
Neil Entwistle was jailed for life today without the possibility of parole
after he was convicted of murdering his wife and baby daughter."
Note: As far as one can judge from the media reports, Entwistle's lawyer
presented a cursory defence with some glaring omissions, for example, he
failed to present any witnesses to support the claim that the wife was
depressed - you either don't use such a defence if there is no supporting
evidence or you put a few psychologists on the stand to testify on the
general question of how often such killings are the result of depression.
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the claim
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
|
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it, only at
the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some unstated
place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot herself, how
did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
tim |
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R. Mark Clayton
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6cpc8aF3h1ng1U1@mid.individual.net...
| Quote: |
"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0Fi6UVNC8zZIFwld@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
"daily telegraph
Neil Entwistle jailed for life without parole for murder of wife and
daughter
By Tom Leonard in New York
Last Updated: 9:39PM BST 26/06/2008
Neil Entwistle was jailed for life today without the possibility of
parole after he was convicted of murdering his wife and baby daughter."
Note: As far as one can judge from the media reports, Entwistle's lawyer
presented a cursory defence with some glaring omissions, for example, he
failed to present any witnesses to support the claim that the wife was
depressed - you either don't use such a defence if there is no
supporting evidence or you put a few psychologists on the stand to
testify on the general question of how often such killings are the result
of depression.
|
Probably acting on his client's instructions.
| Quote: |
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the claim
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it, only
at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
|
Or put it back in its box at her parents' place miles away!
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Robert Henderson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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In message <6cpc8aF3h1ng1U1@mid.individual.net>, tim.....
<tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> writes
| Quote: |
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the claim
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it,
only at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
|
Those facts could easily be explained by someone coming upon the bodies
and picking up the gun. He might, for example, have cleaned the gun
because it was covered in blood. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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Robert Henderson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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In message <McednSbTp8dCHvrVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com>, R. Mark Clayton
<nospamclayton@btinternet.com> writes
| Quote: |
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it, only
at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
Or put it back in its box at her parents' place miles away!
|
Perhaps he did not want to face up to the fact that his wife had killed
his child and herself and took the weapon away hoping the killing might
seem like an intruder crime. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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Periander
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:8Fq4U$giu4ZIFwUk@anywhere.demon.co.uk:
| Quote: |
In message <McednSbTp8dCHvrVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com>, R. Mark Clayton
nospamclayton@btinternet.com> writes
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of
entry of the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when
fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it,
only at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at
some unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she
had shot herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun
afterwards?
Or put it back in its box at her parents' place miles away!
Perhaps he did not want to face up to the fact that his wife had
killed his child and herself and took the weapon away hoping the
killing might seem like an intruder crime. RH
|
No doubt assisted by a passing flock of flying pigs that last month of
Sundays we had, you remember, it was the day hell froze over.
--
Regards,
Periander |
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Robert Henderson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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In message <Xns9ACCAC8FBD883ulmbritwarcouk@69.16.176.253>, Periander
<4rubbish@britwar.co.uk> writes
| Quote: |
Or put it back in its box at her parents' place miles away!
Perhaps he did not want to face up to the fact that his wife had
killed his child and herself and took the weapon away hoping the
killing might seem like an intruder crime. RH
No doubt assisted by a passing flock of flying pigs that last month of
Sundays we had, you remember, it was the day hell froze over.
|
Maybe it was a more mundane reason. How about this: the wife was insured
for a large sum and Entwistle knew the insurance would be invalidated if
she was judged a suicide.
Do you not find his failure to attempt suicide a little out of the
ordinary? RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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tim.....
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3la6cfggt4ZIFw2H@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
In message <6cpc8aF3h1ng1U1@mid.individual.net>, tim.....
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> writes
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the
claim
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry
of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it, only
at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
Those facts could easily be explained by someone coming upon the bodies
and picking up the gun. He might, for example, have cleaned the gun
because it was covered in blood. RH
|
Yes they could, but IIUC this wasn't presented by the defence as a
possibility. Presumably even they didn't think it credible.
tim |
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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tim..... wrote:
| Quote: |
"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3la6cfggt4ZIFw2H@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
In message <6cpc8aF3h1ng1U1@mid.individual.net>, tim.....
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> writes
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the
claim
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry
of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it, only
at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
Those facts could easily be explained by someone coming upon the bodies
and picking up the gun. He might, for example, have cleaned the gun
because it was covered in blood. RH
Yes they could, but IIUC this wasn't presented by the defence as a
possibility. Presumably even they didn't think it credible.
|
And what of someone else wearing gloves using the gun to kill them?
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London |
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Alex Heney
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:17:20 +0100, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
In message <6cpc8aF3h1ng1U1@mid.individual.net>, tim.....
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> writes
The other major thing which seems odd - although it could simply be the
inadequacies of the reporting - is the absence of forensic evidence,
something one would have imagined was pretty crucial because of the claim
that the wife did it. Why no emphasis on the place and angle of entry of
the bullet or the proximity of the gun to her body when fired?
The report that I heard said that the gun had the wife's DNA on it,
only at the end of the barrel, and that his DNA was also on it (at some
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
Those facts could easily be explained by someone coming upon the bodies
and picking up the gun. He might, for example, have cleaned the gun
because it was covered in blood. RH
|
And any juror who thought that possibility raised any "reasonable
doubt" would need their head examining.
Jury findings are not about asking whether there is any outlandish
possibility that could explain the facts without guilt.
It is about whether there is any *reasonable* possibility that
excludes guilt.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
A bird in the hand can be messy.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom |
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Alex Heney
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:23:12 +0100, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
In message <Xns9ACCAC8FBD883ulmbritwarcouk@69.16.176.253>, Periander
4rubbish@britwar.co.uk> writes
Or put it back in its box at her parents' place miles away!
Perhaps he did not want to face up to the fact that his wife had
killed his child and herself and took the weapon away hoping the
killing might seem like an intruder crime. RH
No doubt assisted by a passing flock of flying pigs that last month of
Sundays we had, you remember, it was the day hell froze over.
Maybe it was a more mundane reason. How about this: the wife was insured
for a large sum and Entwistle knew the insurance would be invalidated if
she was judged a suicide.
Do you not find his failure to attempt suicide a little out of the
ordinary? RH
|
Not really.
While it would be by no means uncommon, it is also by no means
invariable.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom |
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Robert Henderson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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In message <54ni64lb0m3m1p9ritvkptt3ebspkkgfop@4ax.com>, Alex Heney
<me8@privacy.net> writes
| Quote: |
Maybe it was a more mundane reason. How about this: the wife was insured
for a large sum and Entwistle knew the insurance would be invalidated if
she was judged a suicide.
Do you not find his failure to attempt suicide a little out of the
ordinary? RH
Not really.
While it would be by no means uncommon, it is also by no means
invariable.
--
True, but it is very rare for an attempt at suicide not to be made and |
where a gun is involved, very few of the se attempts are unsuccessful.
The possession of a gun also gives the killer one of the easiest ways of
suicide. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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Robert Henderson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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In message <ae4g64dn2sdptkcjs9vpnceo1cg1m1br6j@4ax.com>, Alex Heney
<me8@privacy.net> writes
| Quote: |
unstated place). This seems damming forensic to me. If she had shot
herself, how did she clean the handle of the gun afterwards?
Those facts could easily be explained by someone coming upon the bodies
and picking up the gun. He might, for example, have cleaned the gun
because it was covered in blood. RH
And any juror who thought that possibility raised any "reasonable
doubt" would need their head examining.
Jury findings are not about asking whether there is any outlandish
possibility that could explain the facts without guilt.
|
Why outlandish? It would be a natural reaction to clean a gun if it had
blood on it and one had picked it up. I can assure you far more unlikely
scenarios have been put before juries. RH
| Quote: |
It is about whether there is any *reasonable* possibility that excludes
guilt.
|
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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Periander
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:UGoC0XBncjaIFw58@anywhere.demon.co.uk:
| Quote: |
Not really.
While it would be by no means uncommon, it is also by no means
invariable.
--
True, but it is very rare for an attempt at suicide not to be made and
|
Robert, you're talking through your hat, just how many nurderers actually
go of and top themselves once they've done the deed?
A fraction of a percentage point.
As for Entwistle, he thought he'd got away, well he's got the rest of his
life to rue that error in thinking.
--
Regards,
Periander |
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Cynic
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: Re: An oddity about the Neil Entwistle case - he didn't try |
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On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:47:34 GMT, Periander <4rubbish@britwar.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
True, but it is very rare for an attempt at suicide not to be made and
Robert, you're talking through your hat, just how many nurderers actually
go of and top themselves once they've done the deed?
|
When the murder is of the perp's wife *and children* together, it is
most of them.
| Quote: |
A fraction of a percentage point.
|
Not in that specific scenario.
| Quote: |
As for Entwistle, he thought he'd got away, well he's got the rest of his
life to rue that error in thinking.
|
Yup. He may well have intended to kill himself in the usual
murder/suicide scenario, but got cold feet when actually placing the
gun to his head.
--
Cynic |
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